‘Zodiac’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

Key Takeaways

David Fincher's 'Zodiac' has grown in critical stature as a rewatchable film since its 2007 release.
The film is praised for its meticulous detail, digital cinematography, and Fincher's demanding, realistic directorial approach.
The ensemble cast, including Jake Gyllenhaal, Mark Ruffalo, and Robert Downey Jr., delivered strong performances.
'Zodiac' explores the complex, often frustrating, nature of unsolved investigations and the lasting impact of obsession.
Despite critical acclaim, 'Zodiac' received no Oscar nominations in 2007, prompting discussion among the hosts.

The film, released in 2007, has grown in stature as a rewatchable movie, particularly with increased availability on streaming platforms during the COVID-19 pandemic.
One host noted 'Zodiac' has been his personal favorite David Fincher film for the past decade.
The narrative reflects a perceived cultural shift from the late 1960s/early 1970s era of greater trust to a modern climate of caution.

David Fincher prioritizes actor performance and meticulous detail over sincerity, a directorial approach highlighted in comparison to his film 'Seven'.
Fincher's methods focus on realistic human behavior and stylistic choices, such as actors looking directly at the camera during interrogation scenes to convey a killer's perspective.
His transition to digital filmmaking emphasizes achieving authentic takes and background action that mirrors real life, rather than insincere performances.

Mark Ruffalo's portrayal of Inspector Dave Toschi is praised as grounded, contrasting with later, more caricatured roles, and included meticulous preparation for Toschi's real-life ulcer condition.
A debate arose about which of the three leads—Jake Gyllenhaal, Robert Downey Jr., or Mark Ruffalo—delivered the best performance, with Ruffalo lauded for his consistent ability to elevate films.
Robert Downey Jr.'s performance as Paul Avery is noted as a key moment in his career comeback, but also incorporates elements likened to his later 'Tony Stark shtick'.

'Zodiac' received no Oscar nominations in 2007, not even for Best Picture or Best Director, despite its late February release and critical acclaim.
The film's commercial directing style and underperformance at the box office were cited as potential reasons for its Oscar snubs, contrasting with Fincher's earlier hit 'Seven'.
The complexity of the Zodiac case, with its numerous perspectives, extended timeline, and geographical spread, is highlighted as making it more difficult to comprehend than events like the Kennedy assassination.

An amateur cryptographer, Alex Baber, claims to have identified Marvin Merrill (Margolis), a Black Dahlia murder suspect, as the Zodiac killer, citing similar characteristics and a drawing.
Discussions explored alternative theories, including the Zodiac killer stopping for 20 years, the involvement of multiple individuals, or a 'posse' led by Greg Post.
The film's runtime of 157 minutes was debated, with suggestions that approximately 15 minutes could be cut, particularly from scenes involving Mark Ruffalo investigating dead ends.

The 'Aqua Velva scene' between Paul Avery and Robert Graysmith is highlighted as a favorite, showcasing their developing dynamic and Graysmith's interest in codebreaking.
The 'interrogating Arthur at work' scene is identified as a highly rewatchable moment, alongside discussions of disturbing film locations such as Arthur Lee's trailer and Buffalo Bill's basement.
David Fincher's filmmaking techniques create unease in a scene where a character enters a dark space, building suspense and portraying the protagonist confronting his fears.

David Fincher's demanding directing style involved numerous takes, with Robert Downey Jr. and Mark Ruffalo recounting experiences of up to 50 takes for scenes.
Shooting 'Zodiac' digitally created challenges, as Fincher's iterative process and potential deletion of early takes caused confusion for actors.
Fincher's approach is characterized by understanding actor psychology to achieve optimal results, drawing parallels to Stanley Kubrick's demanding methods, as seen in Jake Gyllenhaal's donut scene.

Fincher's meticulous attention to detail extended to helicoptering trees for a scene and insisting on accurate foliage, overriding producer suggestions, earning him a 'David Fincher Award for director may have been a fucking lunatic'.
Another 'David Fincher Award' was given for digitally adding hair to Jake Gyllenhaal's knuckles, which Fincher deemed too hairless and 'pretty' for the role.
The film features a 'Scorsese film' technique where a song starts midway with vocal pops, likened to a DJ, praised for its distinctive and effective use of background music.

The 'Vincent Chase Award for Are We Sure This Character Was Good at His Job' was applied to the Zodiac killer due to perceived instances of incompetence.
Examples cited include failures to kill targets, revealing personal information like his birthday and left-handedness, and wearing identifying items such as a watch and name tag.
These details lead to discussions on whether the killer's actions in the film align with a master criminal persona or suggest a less capable individual.

David Fincher's commentary on 'Zodiac' uses sports analogies, describing Anthony Edwards as embodying an 'assist' for his ability to elevate other actors on screen.
Edwards's casting was influenced by a personal connection between Fincher and Edwards, stemming from their children attending the same school.
Two 'flex category' awards are proposed, including a 'Juice Award' for best non-star toe-to-toe moment, given to John Carroll Lynch for his scene with Mark Ruffalo, and an award for the 'holy shit, are they really going for it right now?' basement scene.

Discussions debated whether 'Zodiac' represents David Fincher's 'Apex Mountain' career moment, with 'The Social Network' or 'Fight Club' also proposed as higher artistic peaks.
Jake Gyllenhaal's 'Apex Mountain' performance was considered, with 'Nightcrawler' and 'End of Watch' competing with his role in 'Zodiac'.
Hypothetical casting scenarios for 'Zodiac' explored whether Tom Hanks or Tom Cruise would better play Robert Graysmith or Inspector Toski, and if Martin Scorsese or Steven Spielberg would be a better director for such a film.

'Zodiac' is deemed a 'worst hang' due to unsettling aspects of the killer's lifestyle and disturbing accounts from a documentary, including the killer allegedly drugging children and potentially committing other crimes while they were present.
Humorous suggestions for film memorabilia included the 'I am not Paul Avery' button and a wooden dildo, contrasting with the film's dark subject matter.
'Dirty Harry' is suggested as a double feature for 'Zodiac', representing a 'solved, exciting version' of a similar investigation, while 'Zodiac' portrays the unsolvable, real-life aspect.