Overview

• John McPhee overcame extreme childhood adversity—including severe bullying as the only white kid in his school, physical abuse, and living in a brothel during high school—developing resilience that later served him during his 20+ years in elite military special operations units.

• As a Delta Force operator after 9/11, McPhee participated in high-stakes missions hunting Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, including a solo reconnaissance mission in Tora Bora and numerous Iraq deployments, viewing his role pragmatically as "kill the bad guy and break his shit."

• Despite his distinguished service, McPhee believes the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were "not worth it" from a strategic perspective, suggesting that political motivations often compromised military objectives, including his belief that bin Laden was intentionally protected to prolong conflict.

• Combat created intense bonds between soldiers that McPhee describes as experiencing "the best and worst of humanity," while also acknowledging the personal toll of service—including multiple divorces and past alcohol use—before finding healthier outlets like Jiu Jitsu training.

Content

Background and Early Life

• The podcast is The Megyn Kelly Show, featuring an interview with retired U.S. Army Special Operations Sergeant Major John McPhee on Memorial Day.

• John McPhee served over 20 years in special mission units, including deployments in Afghanistan and Iraq, and participated in hunting Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.

• McPhee grew up on the South side of Chicago as the only white kid in his class, where he was severely bullied, particularly on the school bus during his freshman/sophomore years. The bullying was so intense that the school system eventually provided him a cab.

• His childhood involved significant physical abuse. He left his parents around age 12 and lived in a brothel with his brother during his high school years, where he helped raise other children.

• Despite these challenges, McPhee doesn't hold deep resentment toward his parents, viewing their problems as part of generational cycles. He maintained contact with his mother throughout life, describing her as "mean, bitter" until her passing.

• In school, he faced frequent beatings but eventually learned to fight and "earn respect" from gang leaders. He was initially an "easy target" but adapted to his environment.

• McPhee worked from a young age as a welder and mechanic, repairing trucks and semi-trucks, which left his hands constantly dirty and greasy.

Path to Military Service

• McPhee initially wanted to join the Air Force due to his mechanical skills, but when they suggested administrative work, he rejected it and explored Army and Marines instead.

• He was influenced by a friend who was an airborne ranger and decided to pursue that path, partly motivated to change careers due to the physical toll of his previous work.

• McPhee joined the military in the late 80s/early 90s, sporting a mullet and facing initial skepticism from recruiters.

• Military service was a family tradition, with multiple family members having served, including grandparents from World War II, though no one talked much about their experiences.

• He signed up without a specific clear purpose and enjoyed basic training, particularly the drill sergeants' trash talk. He had a ranger contract and went through basic training, airborne school, and the Ranger Indoctrination Program (RIP).

• RIP training was intense, focused on creating soldiers who won't quit. McPhee maintained a resilient, non-reactive attitude during the three-week training.

Military Career Progression

• McPhee spent 5 years in Ranger Battalion before pursuing Special Forces, motivated by wanting to avoid being sent to Korea and hoping for more control over his assignments. He was also influenced by pop culture depictions of special forces.

• The Special Forces selection process involved 12-person teams tackling challenging tasks requiring teamwork and problem-solving, including moving heavy equipment over long distances. McPhee felt he was on a weak team during selection.

• After selection, he entered the Q Course (qualification course) and trained as an engineer, learning skills like explosives handling and general contracting.

• He later tried out for Delta Force in the mid-1990s during a period of limited military resources, invited by a friend who was a Mogadishu veteran. The tryout involved navigating through mountains with maps, which he described as challenging but "great."

9/11 and Combat Deployments

• McPhee was in Delta Force and stationed at Fort Bragg during 9/11. His initial reaction was confusion, with the first plane seeming like an accident, but the second plane made it clear it was a deliberate attack.

• His emotional state was complex - excited, nervous, but ultimately committed to his duty.

• His first deployment was to Tora Bora, searching for Bin Laden. At Tora Bora, 10 soldiers accomplished in 10 days what 10,000 Russian soldiers could not, using extensive aerial bombing to clear out Al Qaeda fighters, resulting in hundreds of enemy casualties in a single day.

• McPhee was involved in military operations that killed bin Laden's key associates. He noted that a ceasefire occurred during the operation, with mysterious helicopter activity.

• He suggests bin Laden was intentionally hidden or protected, implying the military industrial complex had reasons to prolong the conflict. He believes bin Laden's eventual killing in 2011 was strategically timed for political purposes (Obama's re-election).

• McPhee expresses a critical view of U.S. foreign policy, describing it as short-sighted and transactional, and questions the narrative around bin Laden's movements and hiding.

Special Operations and Missions

• McPhee describes a mission where he was originally on a routine resupply trip to get Pop-Tarts at Bagram base when a commander unexpectedly asked him to go on a solo reconnaissance mission in Tora Bora.

• The mission's objective was to locate and potentially capture a key facilitator who might have helped bin Laden escape. It lasted approximately 10 days, and McPhee was chosen because he was "in transit" and could be temporarily unaccounted for.

• For survival and infiltration, McPhee relied on his knowledge of the terrain, disguised himself by acting erratically at checkpoints, and used his appearance (potentially mixed heritage due to historical Russian interactions) to blend in.

• In another mission, he successfully recorded video evidence of a target on a front porch, though he did not initially recognize the individual. This particular intelligence did not directly contribute to locating bin Laden.

• McPhee had a positive reaction to bin Laden's eventual capture, stating he thought it was "great" when President Obama announced the raid. He expresses strong admiration for Rob O'Neill, the Navy SEAL credited with killing bin Laden, dismissing criticisms about him revealing details of the mission.

Iraq Operations

• McPhee was involved in approximately 10 deployments to Iraq, including during the Zarqawi period (around 2006-2007), which he describes as particularly intense.

• He participated in a mission targeting the husband of Saddam Hussein's alleged affair partner, which involved staking out a location in a minivan, using two Iraqi assistants, staging a fight as a distraction, and successfully capturing the target without drawing attention.

• McPhee notes that Saddam Hussein had a unique relationship with Christians in his inner circle, allowing them more freedom compared to later groups like ISIS. Saddam's inner circle was predominantly Christian, which McPhee suggests was strategic.

• He describes military operations during this time as increasingly unrestricted ("letting the gloves come off"), including tactics like using a bullhorn and then leveling houses when dealing with foreign fighters.

• McPhee retired in 2011 as a SARM major.

Perspectives on War and Military Service

• McPhee views war pragmatically - as a mission to "kill the bad guy and break his shit." He sees himself as following orders and not personally responsible for broader moral implications.

• He acknowledges innocent people die but frames it within the context of military operations. His perspective on killing is matter-of-fact, viewing it as a consequence of war and the enemy's choice to engage.

• McPhee emphasizes the importance of managing emotions during high-stress situations, advising against getting stuck on negative thoughts. He compares being stuck in past trauma to being trapped in "the last chapter" of one's life story.

• Combat creates unique, intense bonds between soldiers, which McPhee describes as experiencing "the best and worst of humanity." He metaphorically describes military service as giving "Uncle Sam a blank check."

• On women in the military, McPhee believes they have "niche roles" in military service. He has worked with women partners and found them "great" but suggests women are not typically assigned to high-risk combat missions.

• McPhee explicitly states the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were "not worth it," suggesting strategic and tactical objectives were ultimately unsuccessful, though he maintains he "had a great time" personally.

Personal Life and Post-Military Activities

• McPhee was married at 9/11 but has been divorced multiple times. He describes military marriages as challenging due to deployment separations and believes only "perfect relationships" survive military service.

• He has two adult children, with his son working in the army.

• McPhee used alcohol as a "hall pass" for coping in the past but has since stopped drinking. He is currently training for Jiu Jitsu world championships.

• Jiu Jitsu provides him with a break from technology/phones, a form of survival training, mental clarity, and an environment where he can be fully present. He travels extensively, visiting 28-30 different Jiu Jitsu dojos annually.

• Currently living near Fort Bragg in Raleigh, North Carolina, McPhee enjoys off-roading in Arizona mountains with friends, specifically to Crown King, and likes teaching people how to shoot.

• Politically, McPhee supports Trump, JD Vance, and Pete Hegseth. He is critical of Pentagon leadership and military decision-making but believes current leadership makes better long-term decisions. He expresses interest in potentially serving in a Pentagon special operations role.